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Wednesday, April 29, 2009

getting old is a humbling experience to me

It seems that as I get older, my mind and my memory both get weaker along with my body. It is hard not to feel frustrated. So, now I am working to make things simpler in my life. Get bills paid automatically, have less "things" to deal with, and share more of what I do not need with others who would use it better. I pray for our Heavenly Father to help me to do this.

Monday, April 27, 2009

list on FAMILY LEADER on same sex marriage impact articles

Copy pasted from FAMILY LEADER--- Articles there listed about same sex marriage


"The Battle Has Just Begun" By Timothy J. Dailey, Ph.D.

"The California Supreme Court's Edict Redefining Marriage Will Affect All Americans" By Christopher J. Gacek, Ph.D.

"The Role Faith Plays In Marriage And The Likelihood Of Divorce" By Glenn T. Staton

"Are You a Bigot?" By Maggie Gallagher [Article]


"DOMA Won't Do It: Why the Constitution Must Be Amended to Save Marriage" By Dr. Gerard V. Bradley And William F. Saunders, J.D. [Brochure]

"Differing Definitions Of Marriage And Family: Comparing And Contrasting Those Offered By Emerging Same-Sex Marriage Advocates And Classic Anthropologists" By Focus on the Family [Research]

"The Slippery Slope Of Same-Sex "Marriage" By Timothy J. Dailey, Ph.D. [Brochure]

"Sacred Vows, Public Purposes" By Dr. W. Bradford Wilcox

"Rebuilding America" By Ken Blackwell [Book]

"What Harm Would Same-Sex Marriage Do: Eight Ways It Hurts Society" By Peter Sprigg [Analysis]

"Redefinition Revolution" By Maggie Gallagher [Article]

"The Real Danger of Same-Sex Marriage," Stephen Baskerville [Research]

"Europe's Marriage Crisis," Maggie Gallagher [Article]

"Defining Marriage Down," David Blankenhorn [Article]


"California Court Strips Children of Right to Mother and Father," Terence P. Jeffrey [Article]

"Why Children Need Father-Love and Mother-Love" By Glenn T. Staton [Article]

"Ten Facts About Same-Sex 'Marriage" By Timothy J. Dailey, Ph.D. [Analysis]

"Love Isn't Enough," Dr. Trayce Hansen [Article]


"Family Portrait" By Bridget E. Maher, M.A. [Book]

"The Family Under Attack," Sears & Osteen [Book]

"The Future of Marriage" By David Blankenhorn, M.A. [Audio/Video lecture]

"Deterring Divorce" By Bridget E. Maher, M.A. [Brochure]

"Cashing In" (financial benefits of marriage) By Jenny Tyree [Article]

"Why Marriage Matters for Adults" By Glenn T. Staton [Research]

"Measuring the Taxpayer Costs of Family Fragmentation and Promoting Use of a U.S. Marriage Index:A Collaborative Project of Research, Publication, and Public Education:A Collaborative Project of Research, Publication, and Public Education" By Institute for American Values [Research]

"French Out-of-Wedlock Birthrate Shows Impact of Marriage Substitutes," World Congress of Families [Article]


Testimony of Peter Sprigg to the Maryland House of Delegates (February, 28 2008) [Testimony]

Testimony by Peter Sprigg to the Maryland State Senate on Senate Bill 689 "Domestic Partnerships" (February 14, 2008) [Testimony]

Testimony by Peter Sprigg to the Maryland State Senate on Senate Bill 168 "Covenant Marriage" (February 14, 2008) [Testimony]

"Debate-Tested Soundbites on Defending Marriage" By CitizenLink [Resource]

"The Human Case Against Same-Sex Marriage" By Glenn T. Staton [Article]

"What No-Fault Divorce Can Teach Us about Same-Sex 'Marriage" By Glenn T. Staton [Article]

New grandbaby & where we all came from before this life

So, we have a new grand daughter- Maylee. The teachings of my church are that we all are spirit children of our Father in Heaven, and that we dwelt with him there before we came here. Here being the earth- which is like Heavens boarding school. That we do not remember it- so it can be a real test for us- to see if even through the trials of this life, we will choose good over evil.

That the very family and body we are born into are part of our test, and through the challenges that come with them, we will have the experiences suited to the growth areas we choose to develope. That no one can tell if being born into a rich family with a beautiful body and luxuries isn't MORE of a test- to still choose to do good to others and not be selfish and prideful- than to be born to a poor family in a third world country- where it would be easier to serve.

But that there will be pleanty of trails in each persons life, along with chances for joy as we make our choices. That we need to remember to thank God in all things, as even the very trails are blessings and opportunities for us to grow.

I am so pleased that we have this new grand daughter and that another grand baby- a boy Ray Kevin is expected the first week of June. May our Father in Heaven bless us all with what we need most.

Saturday, April 18, 2009

some about LDS belief to become like our Father in Heaven

This is from the topical guide in the LDS edition of KJV of the Bible

under mans' potential to become like God---

It has both Bible references (which LDS beleive) and other LDS scripture references too .

I am posting it as I plan to post ABOUT the topic in a second post, and wanted to have it here for others to refer to easily.

Gen. 1: 26
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen. 3: 22
22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Lev. 19: 2
2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.
Ps. 8: 5-6
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

(Gramajane comment here- could this mean "lower" as in on the earth and not in heaven above?- as LDS believe that our spirits = angels. )

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Ps. 82: 1-8
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Matt. 5: 48
48 Be ye there fore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Luke 24: 39
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
8. John 10: 34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Acts 17: 29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Rom. 8: 17
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Cor. 3: 18
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Gal. 4: 7
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Eph. 4: 13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of thebknowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
2 Tim. 2: 10, 12
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
• • •
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Heb. 12: 9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
1 Pet. 1: 16
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Jn. 3: 2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Rev. 3: 21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
1 Ne. 11: 11
11 And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.
2 Ne. 2: 25
25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
3 Ne. 9: 17
17 And as many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God; and even so will I to as many as shall believe on my name, for behold, by me redemption cometh, and in me is the law of Moses fulfilled.
3 Ne. 12: 48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.
3 Ne. 27: 27
27 And know ye that aye shall be judges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.
3 Ne. 28: 10
10 And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are bone;
D&C 14: 7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
D&C 50: 24
24 That which is of God is alight; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
D&C 76: 58
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
D&C 88: 29, 107
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
• • •
107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.
D&C 93: 20, 29
20 For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.
• • •
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
D&C 121: 32
32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.
D&C 129: 3
3 Secondly: the spirits of bjust men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
D&C 130: 1, 22
1 When the Savior shall aappear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
• • •
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
D&C 131: 1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this border of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.
D&C 132: 1-24
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide theblaw which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and theikeys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?
10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?
11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?
12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.
13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
D&C 133: 57
57 And for this cause, that men might be made partakers of the glories which were to be revealed, the Lord sent forth the fulness of his gospel, his everlasting covenant, reasoning in plainness and simplicity—
Moses 1: 39
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
Moses 2: 26
26 And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and it was so. And I, God said: Let them have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Moses 4: 28
28 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten: Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil; and now lest he put forth his hand and partake also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever,
JS-H 1: 17
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

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Post #4247
You wroteabout an hour ago
Now, the reason that I posted that long list of scriptures is because I have been praying about the topic and thinking about how some choose to twist LDS words and teachings and distort them into things that are not how we believe.

-------like some do about the Catholic belief about the Eucharist
(sacrament with the wine as the blood and the bread as the body of Christ)
-- that the distorters claim is worshiping with cannibalism,
but that is NOT how the Catholics see it! ------ it is a total distortion! :(

So, as I have ALREADY (caps for emphasis- not shouting in my usage)
seen the gross distortions that some do to/of my faith, and have ALREADY done to teachings of LDS-- so- what more can they do?

Maybe it would help clear it up in some minds that are open to hear truth? maybe it looks like weakness if I do not respond- because of not casting pearls?

Now the reason I posted the long list of scriptures for this thread- is that I would like all to see that it does NOT talk about "endless sex" or "eternally pregnant" or any such distortion as that! -- that is the "spin" that anti put on!

I posted the scriptures to show that
just as on the earth a parent hopes their children
will grow up to be like them,---

So also I read in the Bible support that we are the spirit children of God
(I should have posted a list of THOSE **BIBLE** scriptures- and maybe I will)

that God through the prophets writings in the Bible has told us
that he expects us to "become like him"

and to follow Jesus, Gods' Son (spiritually plus **begotten in the flesh**!)

and that we can inherit all WITH Jesus (our elder spiritual brother)

So- as it might have been seen as a weakness- that I do not like to talk of sacred things with those who choose to distort them

and I have come to consider that it is not impossible though I have not heard of it from any but anti ((and those who on here say there were Mormons-who I hae not called anti) )) may have their minds more on lust--

just as they say that a girl dreams all of her life about her wedding day--
but the guys think more about their wedding night --

so though I have NEVER- EVER (emphasis) thought of it the distorted way that I have seen in anti tracts and I understand is in anti film, like The Godmakers

-- it is NOT shown or taught like that in any ward or class I have been in all my 60 years of living and attending church and seminary etc.

I have not called others (who say they were Mormons) liars, who say they were taught it, but only said that is really hard for me to believe, as it is totally out my experience and I also talked to my sisters and others about it, and they agree with me-- it was never taught like that distortion!

Now, I understand that the sister of one on here would have probably gone to the same teacher (of false doctrine)- that she said she got it from --

-- so though she could NOT show it in ANY official church doctrine or manual
-- because it is NOT there-
as it is NOT official doctrine -- but a distortion of our doctrine
= false doctrine.

And so I pray that this will clear up this topic at least for now.

(tell the next person who has believed anti comes on here to dump again?)

May God bless us all to treat others faith as we would like ours treated. Gramajane

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Post #4248
You wroteabout an hour ago
from the topical guide of the LDS edition of the KJV Bible

under Man, a spiritual child of Heavenly Father
Num. 16: 22
22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Deut. 14: 1
1 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
Job 32: 8
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Job 33: 4
4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Ps. 82: 6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Eccl. 12: 7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Isa. 42: 5
5 ¶ Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Hosea 1: 10
10 ¶ Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Mal. 2: 10
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matt. 5: 48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matt. 6: 9
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Luke 23: 46
46 ¶ And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Acts 7: 59
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Acts 17: 29
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Rom. 8: 16
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Eph. 3: 14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph. 4: 6
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph. 5: 1
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Heb. 12: 9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
1 Ne. 17: 36
36 Behold, the Lord hath created the earth that it should be inhabited; and he hath created his children that they should possess it.
Alma 40: 11
11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
3 Ne. 12: 40
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also;
3 Ne. 13: 9
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
D&C 46: 26
26 And all these agifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God.
D&C 76: 24
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.
D&C 77: 2
2 Q. What are we to understand by the four beasts, spoken of in the same verse?
A. They are figurative expressions, used by the Revelator, John, in describing heaven, the paradise of God, the happiness of man, and of beasts, and of creeping things, and of the fowls of the air; that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created.
D&C 84: 83
83 For your Father, who is in heaven,bknoweth that you have need of all these things.
D&C 88: 15, 75
15 And the spirit and thebbody are the csoul of man.
• • •
75 That I may testify unto your Father, and your God, and my God, that you are clean from the blood of this wicked generation; that I may fulfil this promise, this great and last promise, which I have made unto you, when I will.
D&C 93: 33
33 For man is aspirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
Moses 3: 5
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
Moses 6: 51
51 And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh.
Abr. 3: 22
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

Monday, April 6, 2009

My dialogue with another on attacks on others faith

Here is a recent "dialogue" on a discussion group.

I have now gone back and re-read all my posts to you.

I see where I have shared my bad experiences with CHARM.-
--(maybe you felt attacked by that?)
Shared some positive LDS things-- like Mormon messages
and I didn't see that you really asked any questions about my faith for me to answer-- I believe that I did answer the quest. you asked about me. I may have missed something.

I do see that in the post where you said you didn't want to go back and read the past posts as Jeff suggested--

that it seems *you* had referred/referenced it to being about CHARM--

but from my reading the posts before that between you and Jeff- it seems the topic was plural gods-- which is why Jeff probably referred you back as that was a VERY recent topic on this thread and had been discussed thoroughly. again, as it was not my dialogue I may have it wrong.

I do still "unequivocally" state that ---

it is not necessary to "knock or bash or rip on " any other specific faith

to show support from the Bible (or our own life)
for our OWN cherished faith or beliefs.

I am reminded of the movie called "Gandhi" (this example is an "over the top" analogy- but it is what came to my mind-- sorry)

-- where when the **awful atrocity** happened where the soldiers shot into the crowd of people who had met peacefully and kept killing them, as even some jumped into the well- to try to get away-- and they killed anything that moved- women and children even!

So the commander in charge of that atrocity-
was being investigated after it-
by his superiors who were appalled at what he had ordered.

And as I remember it, they asked him why- why didn't he show any mercy?

And he mumbled something about that nobody had asked for any--

Then again as I remember it-someone else said something to him about-- did he think that they would walk into the guns shooting them to do so?

Well sorry that this IS **way over the top*** for an example---

***but the principle I think is the same.***

You have said that you want to help save LDS---

but I think to try to do that by

attacking our faith with saying the things you have---

does not inspire me with any reason to trust you or think I would be treated with respect

---- kind of like the old "love me--love my dog"

I love my church and its teachings WAY more than I could any dog--

so -- when I feel that my church (or dog) is

getting kicked by anyone--

I sure don't feel like trusting them with my own welfare, body or soul!!!

I hope that sharing this will help you (or any others) to see how it looks to me.

I think that probably anybody IN a church MUST see *something* in that church that feels good and beautiful to them, or they wouldn't be there?

So, maybe if others instead of trying to "rip it out of their hands/hearts"

would with gentle hands- stand back and OFFER something they feel is BETTER--

(without trying to smear dirt on theirs!!!-- let THEM compare--
as they know what they are taught!!!---

and as for the anti charge that LDS REALLY believe different things than they teach--- is silly to me-- it is hard enough to teach what we believe- and "a house divided against its self will not stand"-- so as we are standing and growing very well- the fruits seem to disprove that charge

My experience is that I have read TONS of anti- I have a whole 3 ring binder with anti pamphlets etc, along with books and books! --- They have my writing all over them, where I have gone to the source and found they are misquotes- distortions and out of context ETC!!!!!!

I think you think LDS are all blindly lead

-- I can speak only for myself. I HAVE looked at both sides, (anti and LDS) plus many other churches. I have "proved all things- held fast that which is good"

So then if the person should feel that something other than LDS is best---

wouldn't they then walk away from what they now see as "less"?

I think so. --- and certainly some DO walk away

--- what I find interesting or ironic-- is that the FRUITS of those
who have left the church (that I know of personally)
do not seem to bear out that it was a good choice.

Nor do they usually go to another church-- but when they decide that maybe they can't live the teachings in ours or they are offended or whatever?

-- that I do not seem to see them finding any other faith that they want to come and share with me.

LDS do NOT believe in "shunning " either.

Anyway-- this is my life experience.

I promote ANY and ALL to share what cherished beliefs they hold true! I like to learn of others faith in Jesus Christ and how their prayers have been answered and their life blessed. Many on here of other faiths have shared that-- and it warms my heart.

I believe that God loves and inspires ALL his children and answers their prayers too! I KNOW some will receive a better reward than some LDS!!

May we all respect each other and their sacred beliefs (even when we may disagree with them) just as we can treat a child kindly who has an "imaginary friend". Gramajane

Friday, April 3, 2009

A blessing in my life!

So I was noticing during the day yesterday that my right upper arm, on the
underneath/inside felt rather raw-- like somehow I had scraped the skin
off or something.

So, when it kept hurting a bit more and more during the day, I finally
took my arm out of the long sleeve sweatshirt I had on to see if I could
see anything-- but there was nothing to see. Puzzling?

So in the evening, as it was still hurting with just the movement of my
arm, or the cloth ON my arm, I had Ray look at it, and then I was just
saying how it felt, and he couldn't SEE anything-

when I realized this felt just like my back did when I got the shingles

TOTAL YIKES! -- So I asked Dad to give me a priesthood blessing right
THEN! He did, and I didn't notice any more pain all last night or this

I did get a runny nose in the night but I'm working with that with
airborne and flu remedy and I'll trade that for shingles ANY day! I feel
so blessed! Gramajane